“Although all societies are characterised by sexual asmmetry to some extent, one would be hard put to find a society in which the sexes are as divided into opposing alien camps as they are in any small Irish village of the west. A general rule can be said to be observed: wherever men are, women will not be found, and vice versa”
V interesting Belinda. As I read I wondered about the age group of the women you quote? It would be too depressing to think this attitude is as fixed in younger adults.
Thanks Margaret. The women quoted would age (at the time of interview) from late 20s to late 40s, with Orla and Fiona being the youngest. I do believe there is a generational element but the Gender Norms survey I reference above would have been multi-generational, so I feel they remain fairly significant attitudes in the cultural ether in Ireland that effects all ages.
Those are good qualities though. We should teach them to everyone! maybe men have similar loads put on their shoulders?
Personally, I no longer chafe against gender roles as long as - the workload falls evenly, and no one is HAS to do a,b,c.
The world is very big and earning a living /running a home / raising a family is difficult and intense. There's enough work and more for two adults to both fail at achieving it.
Historically, say in farming communities and other physically demanding environments, it would make perfect sense the work to be split between physical demanding and childbearing. In ireland we're still quite rural and attitudes don't change that quick - another generation or two of email jobs and contraception should do it
And one other point - women who feel guilty about taking an hour or two a week for themselves need to work on themselves, I say this with compassion. It's the same with any flaw, drinking too much, flying into a temper all the time, being a workaholic . No matter the externalities, a woman has to look at her life and assess what's objectively true and power on through to a better place. It's better than expecting universal approval for your actions.
Yes, I very much agree that in many ways the aim is balance - to balance out load, expectation, and pressure.
Interesting about the farming communities and gender divide in there. I grew up in a farming family (on both sides) and I would say, while roles were quite 'traditional' there was also a lot of blurring of them. Quite normal for women to be out on the farm doing heavy, physical work and men (at least in my family) to throw together a dinner or do 'domestic' tasks too. I've also been researching this a bit in different centuries, and most observations of rural Ireland (particularly the tenant class) in 18th century and before often comment on how essential the woman's income and her employment (in things like butter-making, weaving etc.) was to the household, and also how men and women quite often shared in the physical farm work out in the fields, both contributing quite equally. At the time of the Poor Laws being introduced, many of the assessors who travelled around the West of Ireland (19th century) noted how in many 'poor families' the woman was the primary breadwinner for the whole household. But, because this was the era when the concept of the 'Housewife' was being invented by the Victorians and clear gender role divides began to be associated as a marker of respectability, households were this was the case were viewed by the Poor Law assessors as being in a particular state of poverty, simply because the woman was 'forced' to go out and earn, but I imagine, really what they were witnessing was a society that just didn't have such clear cut gender roles or differentiation. So I do think, it really is quite a recent phenomena (last couple of centuries) and that although they are changing (perhaps back to that more fluid approach of 19th century rural Ireland) many of us still live in the wake of very strict gender norms that were created in the 19th century. So it's all very intriguing, thinking about how 'norms' are made 'the norm' by social and state policy etc.
And yes, I do also agree that, fundamentally, change is always an inner journey. We have to have accountability for our own actions and behaviours and changing things in the outer world tends to first begin by looking inward and altering how we show up in the world ourselves.
Many thanks for sharing your experiences here and reading this piece.
V interesting Belinda. As I read I wondered about the age group of the women you quote? It would be too depressing to think this attitude is as fixed in younger adults.
Thanks Margaret. The women quoted would age (at the time of interview) from late 20s to late 40s, with Orla and Fiona being the youngest. I do believe there is a generational element but the Gender Norms survey I reference above would have been multi-generational, so I feel they remain fairly significant attitudes in the cultural ether in Ireland that effects all ages.
I am surprised and dispirited by that Belinda.
Those are good qualities though. We should teach them to everyone! maybe men have similar loads put on their shoulders?
Personally, I no longer chafe against gender roles as long as - the workload falls evenly, and no one is HAS to do a,b,c.
The world is very big and earning a living /running a home / raising a family is difficult and intense. There's enough work and more for two adults to both fail at achieving it.
Historically, say in farming communities and other physically demanding environments, it would make perfect sense the work to be split between physical demanding and childbearing. In ireland we're still quite rural and attitudes don't change that quick - another generation or two of email jobs and contraception should do it
And one other point - women who feel guilty about taking an hour or two a week for themselves need to work on themselves, I say this with compassion. It's the same with any flaw, drinking too much, flying into a temper all the time, being a workaholic . No matter the externalities, a woman has to look at her life and assess what's objectively true and power on through to a better place. It's better than expecting universal approval for your actions.
Yes, I very much agree that in many ways the aim is balance - to balance out load, expectation, and pressure.
Interesting about the farming communities and gender divide in there. I grew up in a farming family (on both sides) and I would say, while roles were quite 'traditional' there was also a lot of blurring of them. Quite normal for women to be out on the farm doing heavy, physical work and men (at least in my family) to throw together a dinner or do 'domestic' tasks too. I've also been researching this a bit in different centuries, and most observations of rural Ireland (particularly the tenant class) in 18th century and before often comment on how essential the woman's income and her employment (in things like butter-making, weaving etc.) was to the household, and also how men and women quite often shared in the physical farm work out in the fields, both contributing quite equally. At the time of the Poor Laws being introduced, many of the assessors who travelled around the West of Ireland (19th century) noted how in many 'poor families' the woman was the primary breadwinner for the whole household. But, because this was the era when the concept of the 'Housewife' was being invented by the Victorians and clear gender role divides began to be associated as a marker of respectability, households were this was the case were viewed by the Poor Law assessors as being in a particular state of poverty, simply because the woman was 'forced' to go out and earn, but I imagine, really what they were witnessing was a society that just didn't have such clear cut gender roles or differentiation. So I do think, it really is quite a recent phenomena (last couple of centuries) and that although they are changing (perhaps back to that more fluid approach of 19th century rural Ireland) many of us still live in the wake of very strict gender norms that were created in the 19th century. So it's all very intriguing, thinking about how 'norms' are made 'the norm' by social and state policy etc.
And yes, I do also agree that, fundamentally, change is always an inner journey. We have to have accountability for our own actions and behaviours and changing things in the outer world tends to first begin by looking inward and altering how we show up in the world ourselves.
Many thanks for sharing your experiences here and reading this piece.